Ir or whomever
I'm being a jerk, provoking on OTM today on purpose. To make theists see where I really can be insulting and childish but to make atheism as blunt and honest as they can imagine. I'll apologize tomorrow and beg for forgiveness but bear with me today.
posted by TXatheist at 12:42 PM
14 Comments:
I think it's working...
Why are you doing that?
Oh, never mind - you said why.
Perhaps a safer approach would have been to say "I know atheists who would say it like this" ;)
Good luck with the 'apologize and get forgiven' part...
...that was supposed to read "like 'this'", not "like forward-slash"
Yes, it won't be easy for some to forgive and that will bother me. I realize I may not be able to get forgiveness and it's not easy to swallow.
I wonder if some may not believe you were doing it on purpose if so I expect that will be difficult to take also.
In theory Christians believe in second (and third) chances so I guess we'll see. I've had situations where the door, once closed, was never re-opened - and it wasn't even my fault.
I can hope for forgiveness:)
It's good to have hope :). I can't predict how others will react but I hope it's the way you're hoping for!
By the way I posted some comments on Jack's sermon that you've been discussing with him, if you're interested. They're on the same blog entry as yours ("Where did I go today?")
Not sure of the point here. Especially in the 10% world (only 10% of interpersonal communication is contained in the words--the rest in tone and expression).
I think contributions like this (whether you have a master plan or not) will just convert the conversation into a tic-tac-toe game: no one wins--we just sit across from each other and think "typical xian", "typical pagan".
I gotta tell you, the thing that gave you credibility in my eyes was your even-handedness in discussion. Being "insulting and childish" doesn't necessarily translate into "blunt and honest". I was taken aback at some of your stuff (chastising you on the discussion site)--not characteristic of the TX I've come to respect.
I'm looking forward to the old TX.
bob,
Fair enough:) The point was to show what it's like to be bombarded with rhetorical points that are nothing but arguments. Ever gotten those people at your door convinced you have no clue about god? I was doing what they do, annoy the crud out of you and refuse to accept what you say. It could very well be seen as childish, and now some may realize what it's like when we get witnessed to. Also, gotta ask, pagan? I don't think there are any pagans on any of these sites. I know one pagan personally and they aren't anywhere near this place:) They are a UU member though.
I see what you mean but reinforcing stereotypes or returning abuse for abuse isn't productive.
I knew pagan was a bad word choice. "xian" is mildly offensive (though I've read your explanation about the greek letter Xi) and I wanted to choose another mildly offensive term to illustrate the stances of each side at the end of the tic-tac-toe game.
bob,
Oh, I'm not a pagan nor offended. It would like be like calling you a guy from Iowa. You aren't one so you probably just consider me incorrect. What is productive for us atheists to be heard? The U of M report shows we aren't trusted or generally respected in short. Michael Newdow was articulate, polite and very educated but received death threats and hate mail. Please provide a good way that works for us atheists. Please also keep in mind you are open minded to listening. I've told others that I'm atheist and they've said I'm a fool and going to burn in hell and that was the end of what they wanted to say or hear.
Well, I'm relieved to read this explanation - I was getting kinda worried about you yesterday..
I wish I knew how, TX. I wish I knew.
When I hear about stuff like that I am so ashamed. It's like I have this drunk Uncle Louie who always makes an ass of himself. I have to go from place to place apologizing for his behavior. Uncle Louie really is a great guy who does a lot of good--it's just that sometimes he has a little too much and ends up embarassing the whole family.
I apologize for "him" and for every person that wrote you off as "going to hell". Since I believe in hell, I can think of nothing more terrible to say to someone.
But I guess you can either hate Uncle Louie or try to love him as he is. (Really, You don't have to do either--he's not your uncle). If you love him maybe just maybe in one of his sober moments, he'll see Jesus in you and finally sober up.
bob,
Thanks for your concern. Just another note if I may, going to hell doesn't bother one bit. I'd say that's one way to know if someone is an atheist when such comments bounce right off:) It's irrelevant to me, hell. I appreciate you realing the problem but honestly we need more than worry about "uncle louie", it's his whole side of the family that we are working against. At least that's how I see it.
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